Denise:

This is so exciting. I think that it’s crazy to say I’m excited to talk about grief, but the truth is that I come across so many women who are dealing with grief. And of course it is apparent, you know, when you lose a loved one, that you are dealing with grief. But today we’ll also be talking about the other kinds of grief that people will be able to experience, the other kinds of grief that people may be experiencing and how to handle that.

And I think it’s very common too, for the women in our audience to turn to food for comfort during their time of grief. So we’re going to talk about all things grief, all things food, all things about how to deal with grief in a way that is actually healthy. Although it still might be uncomfortable and full of feelings. So welcome, Nicole.  

Nicole:

Thank you.  

Denise:

So tell me a little bit about your family, about how you came to this grief work. I mean, even your grief story.  Yeah. So again, my name is Nicole Haugen. I’m a grief coach and I, I’m also a nurse. I still have my nursing license, but I’m coach full time. I live in North Dakota. 

I’m married to my husband, Will, for 15 years and we have six girls. , as a nurse, I mostly worked in home health and hospice, mostly hospice. And so  I realized that Most people cannot do that job. I had a lot of coworkers come and go, you know, cause they would start and quit. Cause it’s hard.

It’s very hard work, but I always found it very fulfilling and very rewarding. If I went back to being, to nursing, working outside the home, being a nurse, I for sure would go to hospice again. Like it’s just, it’s my favorite. I love it. And so I am comfortable talking about dying, the dying process, what it looks like, educating families and their loved ones.

When somebody is in those final stages of of dying and yeah, I just it fills me up and then  part of my grief story and why I became a grief coach is in 2019  My dad he had had cancer for six months 10 years up to that point when they found it, it was prostate cancer, but it had metastasized to his bones by the time they even found it.

And then he still lived 10 years after that. He’s a very stubborn man and so he was still working on our family ranch and doing all the things until basically one day. I mean, he had kind of been in more pain leading up to those final weeks, but he’d still been going to the doctor receiving treatments.

And then my mom called me said, your dad cannot walk. He just, he can’t use his legs anymore. And so I asked him, you know, like, Does he want to go to the doctor? Does he want to see what they can do? Or what does he want to just know? This is it. Like, I want to go on hospice now.

And, you know, she asked my dad and he said, no, I, I think it’s time for hospice. I think, I feel things are  ending, getting near shutting, things are shutting down.  And so I, I drove out to our family ranch and I being the hospice nurse, got everything lined up. Got all the equipment that he needed. And actually that, then that day he got the last rights.

And so he, because he had never been Catholic up to that point. And so my mom had always prayed for him to be Catholic. And so he became Catholic on that Wednesday. And my husband was actually in the RCI, RCIA classes. They call them something different now, but the RCIA classes. And so he was preparing.

And so that Saturday was the Easter vigil. And my husband became Catholic that Saturday as well. And so like that was just a super exciting, like wonderful time. I don’t know. It was just very, it was very rewarding because then he could receive the, my dad could receive the last rites. all of those things are what he received communion.

The priest would come out and visit with him. And so it was just very beautiful, but, and I was pregnant at the time with our sixth child, very, very pregnant. And so, you know, part of the fear was that,  My daughter would not be born before my dad died, but she made it. She was born. And six weeks later, my dad passed away and you know, a grief when it’s expected is different than when it’s unexpected.

And so of course you’re sad and. You know, you still run through the what ifs and all the things, but it’s, it’s a little bit easier, especially my dad was suffering a lot towards the end. And so we were also  glad that he wasn’t suffering anymore, that he had found relief and especially that he became Catholic, just those few final months.

And so, uh, you know, he, he died with the scapular on, I really believe like he just went straight to heaven, so anyway, so we kind of went back to life.

I went back to my job as a hospice nurse and now had six children, you know, so busy life dealing with the grief of my dad’s death and then I got a call from my brother. I was at work.

And he was like, have you heard or seen mom? And I was like, no. And he’s like, well, you know, I came up here this morning. Cause he just lived a little ways away and he would check on the cows. And he’s like, the garage door was open and the car is gone, but I can’t, you know, I can’t call it. Like I’ve been calling her.

I can’t find her. She had an appointment that morning and he called there, she hadn’t shown up for this appointment. And so he’s like, I’m going to call the authorities. Cause he’s like, something’s wrong. And so I went out there and we were looking for her Alzheimer’s runs in my mom’s family.

So I was worried that with like the stress from dad dying, that it had triggered, you know, something and couldn’t find her. The, they came out, they were looking, we had people all over the our local area looking. And then it wasn’t later till later that night when the wind kind of shifted that you can see tire tracks leading out onto the water right by her driveway.

And so in North Dakota, we get a lot of storms and this was early December and so that that summer spring we had a lot of flooding. And so the water. surrounded her driveway. It was basically like this little road going through waters. That’s what it looked like when you kind of came over the hill. And so the water was equal to the road.

And then when it snows, you can’t really see where the road is. It’s just a gravel road. And then the wind was moving. And so you couldn’t see where the road was at all. And so  you could visibly see where she turned thinking it was the driveway. And instead went out onto the water and her car fell through.

And so the, they came back the next day, they brought their diver team. They searched, they found her car, they got the car out and her body was not in the car. And so it took another day or so of them diving and using their equipment. And they, they did finally find, found her body. and so then.

 We went through  planning the funeral and,  her funeral was on the 19th of December. So then the next week is Christmas. And so we’re trying to like plan Christmas for our kids. No, I had six kids. My brother at the time had three children. And so trying to still have things as normal as possible, but just struggling through that grief and that loss.

And, and. You know, again, the, the what ifs and what could we have done differently? And then a month after that, there was a letter delivered in the mail that I had to sign for  it was a claims, saying that they were going to turn this thing over to collection and I had no idea what they, what they were talking about.

So I asked my husband and here he had multiple credit cards out.  to support his,  his card collection, sports cards, memorabilia, habits, I mean, addiction really. And so multiple credit cards out. And then struggling through the acceptance of, and the grief of my marriage is not what I thought it was.

I’ve been lied to for years on end. This has been hidden from me and dealing with the finances of trying to pay off. Thousands of dollars in credit card debts, tens of thousands of dollars in credit card debt and, and also still working as a hospice nurse, still raising six children, trying to fix my marriage, trying to deal with the grief  of my parents dying. 

So all of that was happening and in, and we struggled, I mean, through that year and then COVID hit, right? Then COVID 2020. So school shut down.  All the kids were home trying to homeschool. I homeschooled that next year. Just, there was a lot of tension in our house during that time. A lot of anger from me and, and struggling through that.

And so I struggled through that. For that first year and then, the following year, then that’s when I discovered something had to give. I couldn’t keep going the way I was.

And so I, needed, I was choosing something for myself at that point in time.  Okay, so you’re in the stress of going through the grief of your parents loss, the loss of the marriage you thought you had being lied to, COVID, homeschooling, and then you say, I need to do something for myself and you seek out a weight loss program, a Catholic weight loss program.

So take me through that.  Yeah.   I think you were like, I have to do something for me. Yeah, yeah, I, I just knew that I didn’t like who I was becoming or who I was in those months. I didn’t like how angry I was. I didn’t like how tired I was all the time. I didn’t like how I was lashing out at others. 

I didn’t like how my clothes fit. I didn’t like how I looked, how I felt. I just basically didn’t like  anything  at that point in time. 

Okay. So you were, so you signed up for that and you’re like, well, I’m going to do that too. Yeah.  Yeah. So I signed up for that thinking. Okay, I’ll lose weight, and I did,  but the reality was like, as I was no longer coping with food, all these feelings of grief and anger and sadness, they were just almost overwhelming at times, and I didn’t know  then what to do with that.

And so that is kind of then how I came on the path of, I want to help other people in their grief because a lot of people don’t know , what is normal? Is this normal? I feel like I’m just angry all the time. People say things that should be helpful, but they’re not helpful. Like they are completely opposite of helpful.

And, and then, I’m overeating, I’m over drinking or I’m oversleeping. Like I can’t get out of bed, like all these things. And it’s like, yes, like I went through all of that, all of it.  Well, Nicole, that’s a great, segue to the next portion of the podcast, which is, you  Just tell us what you know, , what is grief?

How do you define it? What are the stages? What are the different times, types of grief? Yeah. Tell us about grief.  So grief, like if you Google it, right?  There’s so many different varieties of it, but it’s all kind of the same. And so grief really is the normal response to a major loss.

And most of the time we think of the death of a loved one, right? But it can also be if you have a, chronic illness or a terminal illness anything that’s a major loss. For me, it was  the loss of what I felt like was the marriage I thought I had. It was the loss of, of course, like my parents, the loss of not having them there for my kids birthdays or holidays anymore.

It can be the loss  if you’ve had a job for 20 years and all of a sudden, They have to make cuts and you’ve lost that job.  That’s a major loss. So grief can show up  anywhere and everywhere, really. and then of course, like the stages people think  they’re set stages, but then when you get in it, , you start to understand that they just kind of come and go as they want.

And so instead of being like sequential stages, they’re  different. Aspects that you might like float in and float out and they come and they go and you might get into this period or like, it’s more of a characteristic or a facet of grief instead of a stage, could you say? Yes. Yes, exactly. And so people think and then people around you think, well, you should be over this, like you’ve already been angry, you know, like you’ve already done that stage, you should be able to check it off the list.

And it doesn’t work that way.  The stages are denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance.  And can you describe each one briefly?    I like to think of denial as like in the very beginning when it feels like the person has just gone  on vacation, like they’ll be back, that kind of, you’re kind of in that.  Disbelief. Yeah. Disbelief. Disbelief stage.  Anger is  you’re just angry all the time. You’re angry that it happened. You’re angry at people around you. You’re angry at everything.

Angry at them. Yep. For dying, for leaving you here.  Like all those. And I know that you’ve talked about if our kids are, you know, diagnosed with like a special need or something like weak, it, it is totally normal for us to expect to be angry at that child for having a disability. 

Yes. Yeah. We’re not bad parents. We’re not doing something wrong. We will have those feelings. And those feelings aren’t actions, friends. But it is, just, if we find ourselves bitter and angry at our kids for being the way they are, It’s just part of the grief of we want them to be different. Yes. And exactly.

And I find that a lot too, with people who are taking care of a loved one  they’re the caregiver of their parents or maybe a child who has special needs and  they’re a 24 hour caregiver and there’s a lot of anger. There’s a lot of resentment there for the life that they, they wished they had versus the life that they do have. 

That’s so beautiful. I hope that as women are hearing this, they can start to, I don’t want to say the word embrace, but The feelings that they might be experiencing, but I hope that they’re gaining understanding of their current situation, even if they haven’t lost someone where they may be in grief about having a life that they thought is different than, than what it is.

 So denial anger. Yep. And bargaining, which is a lot of, if I do this, then, then nobody else will die. I was very panicked about, Winter time and people driving and I would run through my mind  okay, God, like if I do this and this and this, like, please keep everybody safe.

I can’t lose another person. Like, please keep my husband safe. Please keep this kid safe. Like a lot of bargaining and then a lot of what ifs like what if. We would have put up markers along the driveway, so my mom would have seen when to turn what if we would have come back, just a little on a different flight, and she would have got home a little earlier where it was still daylight.

What if it would have been. An hour later  so what if, . So what if it would have happened.

A day or so later, what if the temperature would have been a little bit colder those days prior? She probably would have just drove out and like sat on top of the, she wouldn’t have fallen through. You know, like, which I don’t know, but I’m just like, you bargain about the what ifs and, and the, the dwelling on things that could have been or maybe should have been. 

And then,  And then depression, I’m not talking about, you know, like a depression that is diagnosed. This is depression that comes with grief, which comes with a major loss.  I’ve never had any other depression. I’m pretty happy go lucky. I, I try to like see, you know, the positive side.

But after this, like, there were days where I literally could not get out of bed. Like, I just, I cried and cried. And I was like, I couldn’t even care if the kids got fed that day or not. Like, I knew my husband would take care of them. Like, I knew that he would. But I physically couldn’t bring myself to do things.

that I enjoyed. Like, I love to read. I couldn’t even bring myself to read. I would just lay there or I would just, like, scroll on my phone mindlessly.  It’s a depression that comes with grief. Not depression from a chemical imbalance in your brain when you’re saying that it sounds like a feeling of extreme heaviness emptiness apathy and like a massive void in that whole like nothing matters  And it would have, it would be variations, right?

Like not every day was like, Oh, I couldn’t get out of bed. Those were probably a couple of times a year when they were, when it was coming closer to like the death anniversary  of my parents, like those kinds of like, but it would.  It would come up in other ways where like,  again, a lot in my food choices, I would just, it doesn’t matter anyway.

It doesn’t matter. Like I would either overeat or I would extremely undereat  based off that depression.  Yeah. And I love all the details because it helps women see, Oh,  Okay, this is part of it. And I think sometimes when we know, oh, this is part of it.  I still don’t have to like it, but just to thank you so much for sharing your experience in so much detail.

Okay. So denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and  are there five stages or just four?  Oh, are we  frozen?

 And we’re back.  Okay.  Thank you internet. I’m gonna change my mic. Okay, cool. So we were talking about denial, anger, bargaining, and depression. And what’s the last stage? Acceptance. Ah.  Oh, I think that’s so funny that we were talking about you move in and out because it could feel like, Oh, acceptance. And now I’m back in anger.

Yeah,  exactly. So like you start to get to a point where it’s okay, this is the reality. This is happening. I feel like, oh, I’ve had a couple of good days or I mean better days. Right. And then all of a sudden it’s like, Wham! Something like triggers you or hits you and it’s like,  Oh, just kidding. Now you’re angry again.

Or now you’re like, Oh man, like God, if you could just give me a sign that they’re okay. Right? Like you’re back in the bargaining or the depression or whatever it may be.  It’s very tricky to navigate.  So tell me a little bit about the role of buffering and specifically coping with food or,  the other things that people cope with. 

Yeah. So, I mean, as humans, we cope with anything and everything, right? So, yeah, a big, a big thing, again, for me was the food. I would,  get a, a mentality of just like, it doesn’t matter anyway. Like  they’re like, my loved ones aren’t here to celebrate this birthday or this, the Christmas. So like I would, I would overeat on everything, or like I said, I would just not hardly eat anything because I would be in that  like depression slash anger stage a lot of times.

With the depression, I would say I would probably. tend to overeat. Anger, I would tend to not want to eat anything because I was just so mad, so angry.  So it is.  Oh, good.   It can vary with anything because,  if you have grief, that is.

Not the death of a loved one, that one’s very obvious to everybody around you, like, oh, you had somebody die, but if you have a, a child who has a chronic illness or a disability, people try to be supportive again, just like, you know, with death, like they try to be supportive,  but a lot of people just, you know, I  mean, and a lot of people, like, they just tend to forget, you know, like, they just,  they just don’t really think about it like you do.

And we think they should understand what we’re going through and they should think about it. And then a lot of it is we cope with food. Like food is such a social norm that when my parents died, like people brought so much food around so much food I wouldn’t eat the healthier food that got brought.

What I would eat. The cookies and the brownies and all the sweets,   it’s more socially acceptable if people see you eating. , if somebody saw you  over in the corner doing math, they for sure would be like, Oh, I think you need some help.

But if you’re just eating,  it’s just normal. And they’re like,  Yeah, you deserve this. You need this.  Of course you’re going to eat that. Of course you want that.  And you know, when we talk about people who aren’t helpful and they say very unhelpful things, and it’s because they don’t understand or they forget, and I want to just offer To all of us that no one’s ever taught us how to support someone through grief. You are a grief nurse, so you have a different perspective, but the truth is, is that all of us are unused grief people, all of all of us lay people, if you will. No one’s ever taught us how to support a human. Or even our other loved ones.  I’ll just tell you, I have not been gifted with that.

I just feel so uncomfortable when people are going through a hard time when I’m not in my coaching role,  on a personal level, I’m like, Oh, I don’t know what to do to even be helpful, what to do, or even say, I feel very ill equipped. That’s probably, I should, I should listen to your podcast. Do you have an episode on that?

Like how to help people through grief? I don’t, but I’m going to because that’s one that I see a lot that people I’m going to, I’m going to do that one pretty soon, I think, because yeah, it is that I want somebody to tell me what to do. So  you mentioned buffering with food and everybody who doesn’t know the term buffering.

It simply means. I’m having some strong feelings. I don’t want to feel them. So I’m going to do an activity and we can use a substance like food or alcohol, or we could use a process or behavior like overcleaning, overscrolling, going for a run, just keeping ourselves super busy. A lot of women I see do that, they just keep themselves super busy so they don’t have to feel. 

So as you help your people. That you work with ,  how can someone grieve and do it in a way where they’re not sacrificing their own wellbeing? 

 So  the biggest thing is to just understand that this is grief because we feel like there’s something wrong with us.  Everybody tells us  it’s been six months,  it’s been a year, it’s been two years, you should be over it.  And so I think just to give it a name and to recognize it like helps so much because it helps you start to get control.

over that again. It’s not just some thing  out there that you’re like,  I don’t know what to do with this. I don’t know. Instead, you’re like, no, this is normal. This is grief.  And, and then to, to Allow that whatever, whatever kind of phase or emotion comes up to just recognize that and then to allow that feeling instead of using something else to not want to feel that way.

 I love that thought. This is normal. Of course, I’m feeling this. This is totally normal. What do I need? Maybe I just need to stay in bed and not judge ourselves. And I think when we are experiencing any strong emotions, especially ones that are negative, that’s uncomfortable enough for women who are emotional eaters.

We’re not used to feeling feelings.  But once we Our allow ourselves to feel the feeling and then that can be uncomfortable. And then we can layer on top of judgment. I shouldn’t feel this way. It’s already been a year. Well, I knew he was going to be sick. I should have expected that. So who  quieting that judgmental voice. 

and allowing ourselves to be just as we are. Oh, I love that.  Can you talk a little bit about  the grief that some women may be feeling with the loss of their food and the way that they have leaned on food before? I love how you said that grief is a normal response to a major loss. So, can you just talk about, maybe the grief women might be feeling about their old lifestyle as they’re moving towards a healthier lifestyle, moving from something that was super familiar and comfortable to something that’s less familiar, even though it’s really wanted. 

 Of course. And so  with, with the  overeating weight loss journey,  again, something is being taken away from you or you believe that something’s being taken away from you.  And so also, I mean, for an example, so for me, I, I really didn’t have a problem,  I should say, with my weight. I probably did overeat when I was younger in high school, right, but like, I was young.

It was fine. And then I didn’t have an issue until I started having babies. And then the weight would stick around, and then I would use food to cope with six children, there is a lot of noise in my house all the time. I’ve had a couple babies  that were very colicky, which I didn’t realize at the time.

 For one of them specifically, I did not sleep for about a year. And, that like  messes with you. And so I would just eat, right. Whatever would make me feel better because I couldn’t sleep.  I couldn’t get sleep. So whatever would make me feel better. And so I started overeating a lot.

And so when I started going through this process of not coping with food and allowing the grief, I was also coping with  the loss of my safety net. My, my food was my safety net. It made me feel good, and all of a sudden I’m telling myself like, I can’t have that and not, can’t have it in like depriving myself, but I can’t have it when I am, or I, I don’t want to have it.

I’m choosing not to have it because I’m choosing to allow these emotions. Instead of always turning to food because I want to break this cycle. I want to break this habit and it could be,  your cell phone, it could be whatever you’re coping with. When it gets to a point where , this is a problem.

And for me, it was the food. It became a problem. And I knew I didn’t want to use it to cope anymore. But I was also grieving the loss of my marriage, my parents, right? Like all these things. And then I was grieving the loss of food on top of it. And, and the grief of, again, food is such a social  norm that you’re grieving almost the thought or the, the feeling, whatever, of like,  when I go to social events, I don’t want to be awkward.

It’s already uncomfortable enough because people.  Talk about my parents or bring up my parents or I don’t know if they know about what’s going on with my husband and I so like  And now I can’t even eat whatever I can’t just go over there and like stuff my face with food And so that is that is grief.

That is hard. That is a loss that you’re dealing with as well  Yeah, and I love how detailed again Nicole that you said that because he  It feels  like, oh my gosh, there’s so much going on. And that’s so complicated and all the things and all the things, but the truth is, is just what you said is this is normal,  you’re going to experience emotions and feelings. 

And our work here is to say, Oh, I’m human.  This is normal. I will have feelings. How can I care for myself while I’m having this feeling?  That’s all I want my audience to hear. If you’re listening to this podcast, know that no matter what you’re feeling is 100 percent normal.  You don’t need to judge it. You don’t need to change. 

Our work here is to recognize  that grief is normal  and sometimes we are believing things that aren’t helpful  I’ll probably actually just get rid of that part. So if you are experiencing anything and you can relate to What Nicole just described your work is  to support yourself by Reminding yourself.

This is normal Allowing yourself any feeling  that you will be safe You  And showing your body and your brain that you’re safe to feel this 

 and expect the unexpected.  Expect the unexpected. Nicole, this has been really, really helpful for me, especially the whole concept of grieving the loss. of things that aren’t humans,  grieving the loss of ideas, of our expectations,  of the family we thought we’d have, the relationships we thought we’d had.

That is just, wow. I’m just going to really talk to the Lord about a lot of things there.  everyone where they can find you and what you have coming up.  Yeah. So you can find me at www. nursegriefcoaching. com. And I recommend everybody. I say you can never have too many coaches. And so, you know, if you’re struggling with grief and with weight loss, I’m always like, it doesn’t hurt to bring on another coach to really specifically look at that portion.

So then you can stay on track. When you see your weight loss coach, stay on track with that. When you talk with your grief coach, it really helps you through that portion. And so I have a free consult on my website that I,  I hope people will take advantage of. And then I’m on Tik TOK, Facebook and Instagram nurse grief coach.

And  I, I do have on my website, there is a video for the holidays and grieving through the holidays. And so that is just a free video that I hope everyone takes advantage of as well, because as the holidays come up, it can trigger a lot of grief, which then can trigger a lot of overeating,  especially around the holidays.

, and you have a podcast.  Yes, I do have a podcast is called the grieving nurse.  Oh, I love it. I love it. And you’re going to do a special episode just to teach Denise Jelinek, how to be supportive of other humans when they’re going through grief.  I think it would be really cool for you to be like, listen, this is what people want to hear when you go to awake.

This is what they want to hear when you go to a funeral, like little scripts. Okay. This is extra Nicole. I’ll cut this part out, but you could do like a PDF  on like, Scripts. That would be like, I would love that. I’d be like,  what to say, what not to say. Yeah. That would be like a great lead magnet in my opinion.

 Okay. Listen,  Nicole said something really great. You guys, she said, you can’t have too many coaches. So I want to tell you how to simplify that in your brain. You know what you should focus on, whether it’s weight loss or grief, cause you can’t focus on all the things you will know which to focus on first and to prioritize in this season of your life, because you know that if you put your focus and could find peace around that area, whether it’s grieving or weight loss, you know, that whichever area you put your focus on will affect the, all the other areas of your life. 

And so I give you full permission to pause  on your weight loss,  go get help with your grief, go get help learning how to process it and support yourself through it. Because guess what happens when we balance our emotions?  Our weight balance is out.  So I definitely know that you will make weight loss progress if one of the things that’s holding you up is your ability to grieve well and grieve with the Lord and lean into that in a way that doesn’t sacrifice your well being. 

So do not hesitate on going to www. nursegriefcoaching. com and getting your free consult with Nicole. She will help you feel so much peace in the 30 to 45 minutes that you spend with her that you will know exactly what your next steps are.  Nicole, it has been so amazeballs having you here. Thank you so much. 

Thank you.